Posts by Doug Mason

79

Why did the Ethiopian require "explanation" of scripture in Acts 8?

by sabastious in

acts 8 29-31: 29 the spirit told philip, go to that chariot and stay near it.. 30 then philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading isaiah the prophet.

do you understand what you are reading?

philip asked.. 31 how can i, he said, unless someone explains it to me?

Doug Mason

Once more I write personal observations.

The Ethiopian was riding in a carriage/chariot; he possessed a Hebrew scroll; he was able to read Greek. (Given the description of him, it is reasonable to assume he could also write in some language.) He was reading the Isaiah scroll after going to worship at Jerusalem. (Since he was not aware of Jesus, I assume he was a Jew.) These are in line with the description that he was a person of high position and learning.

To me, the key point being addressed by the writer is at verse 34: "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" (NIV)

The Christians were attempting to convince Jews that their own Scriptures predicted this person Jesus/Yeshua, and this story at Acts was a vehicle employed as part of the Christians' strategy. In this case, the Christians were trying to reapply Isa 53:7, 8 to their dead leader, while the Jews were telling them it was referring to the time of Isaiah (the Jews were correct, of course).

The rest of the story, such as the Spirit angel having a chat with Philip, are padding which was added to give authenticity to the story.

--------------

While thinking about this black man I was reminded about my beef that the artists of the Middle Ages and those employed by the WTS show the faces of Jesus, his disciples, the early church, and others as pale-faced Europeans/Americans. Sure they place loose cloths garbed around the heads and bodies of their subjects, but the artists clearly make the vasiages unmistakeably Occidental.

Those people are of the Middle East, darker, swarthy, wrinkled by the sun and the sand. They are not namby pamby people from the courts of Italy or from the health studios of Western culture.

Just thinking aloud.

Doug

79

Why did the Ethiopian require "explanation" of scripture in Acts 8?

by sabastious in

acts 8 29-31: 29 the spirit told philip, go to that chariot and stay near it.. 30 then philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading isaiah the prophet.

do you understand what you are reading?

philip asked.. 31 how can i, he said, unless someone explains it to me?

Doug Mason

From the outset, let me say that I do not have the absolute answer. But a few principles of study might help.

To answer such a question, first discover the context. ("A text without a context is a pretext".)

Look at its litererary and theological placement in the broad theme of the writing, not just the immediate verses but also the adjacent chapters and the overall structure of the writing.

More importantly, unearth the cultural context. When was it written, by whom, what was the purpose of that sector of the Church, and against which "heresy" were they aiming their material. Everything was written for a purpose; they were not creating nursery tales that were aimed simply to amuse. Where was it written, what were their idioms, understandings, and such.

The Acts of the Apostles was not the only "Acts" written at that time, so investigate and compare those. The "final" decision on the canon of Scripture was not made until centuries later, by the sector of the church that became dominant.

The Acts of the Apostles is recognised as historically unreliable, where the writer presented stories in the manner that it was wished should have happened. It was penned about the end of the first century, some 40 years after Paul's death, and at a time of great stress within the Movement.

Their leader had been put to death, the promised imminent coming had not taken place, and they were struggling to make sense of what was happening. The Jews only understood that the Messiah would be a fearful powerful warrior king, removing all foes from God's land and people. This Jesus/Joshua was nothing like all that the Scriptures said about the Messiah. The Jews knew nothing about the Messiah coming twice.

So with the Christians at the end of the first century becoming a laughing stock at focusing on this dead Messiah, the Christians responded by searching the Hebrew Scriptures to explain the reason for their predicament, and in the process silence and hopefully denigrate the Jews. Anti-Semitism finds its roots, and this results in many anti-Semitic sentiments being introduced into the Christian literature.

When they were able to find a few Hebrew texts that might have just the faintest relevance to Jesus, the Christians twisted the original meanings to make them appear relevant. Texts such as at Isa 7, Isa 53, and Ps 22 in particular were re-engineered to take them away from their original meaning so they could make them instead be applied to their dead leader.

So it is possible that it did not matter what part of Isaiah the Ethiopean was said to be reading; that would not have been the writers' concern or objective.

Consider, also that the use of an Ethiopean might have been relevant to the location where the Acts of the Apostles might have been written, Alexandria.

And there was a number of significant black early Church Fathers.

Doug

18

Whatever you do, arrive at 1914

by Doug Mason in

the wts claims that the length of babylons king nebuchadnezzars suppressed state symbolised the suppressed state of gods kingdom.

each day of the heathen kings lack of control represented a year of heathen supremacy.. .

since nebuchadnezzars experience was symbolic, it would have ended before the fulfilment started; unfortunately the hebrews scriptures do not specify that moment.

Doug Mason

Daniel 2: A dream shows that Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom (head of gold) will be replaced with subsequent kingdoms.

Daniel 3: A huge image entirely of gold (Babylon will never be replaced).

Daniel 4 (v 30 especially): Nebuchadnezzar boasts that Babylon's glory is solely due to him. Story ends with Nebuchadnezzar acknowledging the supreme role of the Hebrews' God.

There is thus a continuing theme, a composite objective of these stories. They employ mythical elements (a fire that burns selectively?) and other elements that better fit a superstitious culture.

To whom were this set of stories addressed? What message of comfort or divine purpose did they contain? The messages had to have meaning for the community they were being addressed to, where the circumstance confronting Daniel and his cohorts was being repeated. Such considerations are among several that point to these stories being collected, assembled, and promoted during the persecution of the 2nd century BCE.

These stories had meaning to the intended audience without raising the suspicions of their terrifying persecutors. Understanding the 2nd century context of the book of Daniel provides meaning to its contents.

Doug

22

True Authorship of New Testament

by QED in

hi everyone.. i'm new here and this is the first time im posting.

about myself: i come from china and have been living in the uk.

5 years ago, i began to attend meetings and study the bible with jw in a chinese congregation, but never baptised.

Doug Mason

Band,

You name several sources, of whom I have only one on my bookshelf: Dominic Crossan (“Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography”).

I was unable to locate any comment in that book where he says forgery was acceptable to the primitive Christian church, so you will need to give me the location and context of his words.

Since I have no books by these other people you nominate, you will need to be kind enough to do the same for each of them. I have 45 years experience of seeing the WTS supposedly cite a source, only to discover that the source was being misrepresented or misquoted.

I have no real penchant for ringing people in USA, but it should be possible to ask this Prof. Pagels by email on his/her views on the acceptability of the bible’s forgeries. I would appreciate your providing his/her email address, since you appear to have ready contact.

Thanks,

Doug

22

True Authorship of New Testament

by QED in

hi everyone.. i'm new here and this is the first time im posting.

about myself: i come from china and have been living in the uk.

5 years ago, i began to attend meetings and study the bible with jw in a chinese congregation, but never baptised.

Doug Mason

Several NT writings were not penned by their alleged authors. This makes them forgeries, products of the intent to deceive.

It is beyond my belief that it would be said that the early Christian community tolerated forgery, fraud, and deceit. That would run counter to Jesus’ alleged words: “Watch out for deceivers”.

Today, forgery, misrepresentation, and deception are punishable as criminal, and there is no indication they were tolerated at the time the NT writings were created.

Earlier, the desire to root out such heinous practices resulted in the euphoria experienced by Archimedes. Today, forgery, fraud, and deceit can result in lengthy incarceration.

What would anyone say today should I write a book or article and then publish it with the claim that it was they who was the author? Utter outrage, at the very least. And deservedly so.

There is much evidence which identifies those canonised writings that were falsely identified as written by someone else. Why do people perpetuate the myth that these practices were acceptable to the early church?

It is quite ironic, yet revealing at the same time, that the forged writing now known as 2 Thessalonians, should warn people against forgeries that were being put out in Paul’s name: “We ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us .” (2 Thess. 2:1-2, NIV)

A revealing study, yet by no means unique, is “Forged: Writing in the Name of God – Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are”, Bart Ehrman.

Doug

22

True Authorship of New Testament

by QED in

hi everyone.. i'm new here and this is the first time im posting.

about myself: i come from china and have been living in the uk.

5 years ago, i began to attend meetings and study the bible with jw in a chinese congregation, but never baptised.

Doug Mason

Band,

I am not certain if your sensitivities were touched by my comments, or not. Please do not get personally offended by me, as none was ever intended.

My position is that no two of us has the same beliefs or understandings. These are moulded over the years through our many encounters, which we check against our pre-existing models. Many encounters will cause us to make adjustments to our models.

Often what we are hearing or reading, regardless of the impeccable source that it might be, often produces an outcome in the hearer or reader that the speaker or writer had never intended or even forseen.

You set out your qualifications, so I give you mine: University of Hard Knocks, Faculty of Life.

Doug

18

Whatever you do, arrive at 1914

by Doug Mason in

the wts claims that the length of babylons king nebuchadnezzars suppressed state symbolised the suppressed state of gods kingdom.

each day of the heathen kings lack of control represented a year of heathen supremacy.. .

since nebuchadnezzars experience was symbolic, it would have ended before the fulfilment started; unfortunately the hebrews scriptures do not specify that moment.

Doug Mason

The WTS claims that the length of Babylon’s King Nebuchadnezzar’s suppressed state symbolised the suppressed state of God’s Kingdom. Each day of the heathen king’s lack of control represented a year of heathen supremacy.

Since Nebuchadnezzar’s experience was symbolic, it would have ended before the fulfilment started; unfortunately the Hebrew’s Scriptures do not specify that moment. The WTS is not so backward, pinning the commencement of heathen supremacy over God’s Kingdom to two months after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, during the 19th year of his reign.

The king was mad for seven “times”, which is taken to mean seven “years”. Using the Revelation, even though the book was unknown to the people who wrote the book of Daniel, the WTS explains that each “time” was fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar as a “year”. The “times” of Daniel actually refers to the fulfilment upon Nebuchadnezzar and not to any secondary fulfilment derived from Nebuchadnezzar’s fulfilment, as the WTS would have.

Looking at the first 19 years of Nebuchadnezzar’s rule, Parker and Dubberstein identify the following additional (intercalary) months inserted: Ululu II (years 5, 10, 15, 19) and Addaru II (years 2, 7, 12). Depending on the year that his madness started, several years would have been extended by an extra 30 days during his first 19 years. Accepting that scenario would permit the WTS to easily shift their end-date by a few decades.

The WTS could have argued more reasonably that the suppressed state of Judah symbolised the suppressed state of God’s kingdom. Thus their 70 years of being punished would equate to a future low state of God’s Kingdom. This would mean that the fulfilment commenced some time after the 70 years had ended.

This means the symbolised period would have started some time after the Fall of Babylon. As it turns out, the precise date does not matter to us. Nor does it matter whether each year was 360 days long with the occasionally inserted intercalary month, or if each year was 365 days long. The minimum length of years would represent 25,200 years while the longer years would represent about 25,500 years. This highlights how ridiculous their concept is.

As the earth rushes towards 2014, what then should the WTS do? It will be faced with JWs living between the 100th anniversary of the start of the Great War (August 1) and the 100th anniversary of the start of their Kingdom Rule (October 1).

I suggest that the WTS’s Mind Controllers be locked in the Theocratic War Strategy Bunker to devise a replacement “Whatever you do, arrive at 1914” strategy. Perhaps they will rediscover one of the earlier reasonings, such as the use of Leviticus 26.

The problems they have with the interpretation of Daniel 4, their obviously wrong neo-Babylonian chronology, all need to be taken away and shoved into the bottom drawer, never to see daylight again. People will accept. Millions have already been taken in, so there is no reason the changes will prevent it continuing.

Doug

163

The Trinity

by The Quiet One in

i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

Doug Mason

Why is it that the people who deny the trinity have no problem in accepting the Canon (list of writings) of the NT that was drawn up by a Trinitarian?

His was not the only Canon produced during the centures before he lived. He made mistakes and he selected writings that supported his sector of The Church. His list was produced about the same time as his Trinity doctrine was adopted.

I see a great inconsistency.

Perhaps the following bigger question should be asked:

Rather than argue about the nature and format of God (whether known by names such as HWHY, ELOHIM, ALLAH, BAAL, or ZEUS), why should people believe anything at all that is written in ancient writings about super beings/entities?

Doug

14

539 BCE and an astronomical tablet

by Doug Mason in

page 453 of the wtss book, insight on the scriptures says that the eclipse records for the 7th year of cambyses can be used to calculate 539 bce for the fall of babylon.. to do this, the chronology article refers to j. n. strassmaier, f. x. kugler, t. oppolzer, and o. gingerich.. what did those people actually write?.

how does the wts manage to travel from the 7th year of cambyses to the date of the fall of babylon?.

http://www.jwstudies.com/539_bce_and_an_astronomical_tablet.pdf.

Doug Mason

Deist,

If I may be so bold as to speak on Lars' behalf he is not an apologist for either 607 or for 587/6.

He has his own agenda, which I will not enter into here today, since that would muddy the waters and introduce unwanted distractions.

Doug

14

539 BCE and an astronomical tablet

by Doug Mason in

page 453 of the wtss book, insight on the scriptures says that the eclipse records for the 7th year of cambyses can be used to calculate 539 bce for the fall of babylon.. to do this, the chronology article refers to j. n. strassmaier, f. x. kugler, t. oppolzer, and o. gingerich.. what did those people actually write?.

how does the wts manage to travel from the 7th year of cambyses to the date of the fall of babylon?.

http://www.jwstudies.com/539_bce_and_an_astronomical_tablet.pdf.

Doug Mason

Larry,

My main point, in my eyes anyway, is that the WTS does not make any computations of its own to determine the eclipse dates but accepts them on face value from the people it cited as the authorities. Yet it never again employs that process, presumably because they have the end point in view. This drives them to ridicule the sources it had relied on, which is gross dishonesty.

Second point is that they need a secular king list (such as Ptolemy) to be able to tavel to 539, and we know what they think of that.

Thirdly, by listing these authorities but without telling the JWs what these sources are really saying, the WTS is playing foul.

Three out of three is not nice.

Doug